As for career politicians being a bad, the issue is the corruption of big money, not being an experienced politician, right? In fact, public service experience should be a requirement running for high office ? To what extent does the rhetoric about corrupt career politicians promote a fake antigovernment mentality that enables oligarchy?
“Clinton has shown me her lack of concern regarding foreign policy unless it lines the pockets of her husband’s Philanthropy… her lack of concern regarding those same affairs with the email server speaks for itself.. I could go on and on but won’t. Domestic policies? Some I agree on but don’t actually trust her to put them into play. She cannot be trusted. That is a fact. Abortion? I do not agree with BUT feel that God did not put me here to judge others. I am to show my beliefs and pray that I make a small difference. We each will stand before God to be judged for our actions. As far as voting for one or the other based on fear of the other? We only have 2 viable choices so that probably carries some validity BUT other than dragging up decades old sex issues on Trump? It’s pretty clear he is not a pathological liar. He is the best of the choices I have to choose from in this election.”
ed, you think of 10 reasons why he’s crazy, but in the end you realize he’s the only one telling you the truth.”
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Jeff M regarding Clinton : “The FBI didn’t exonerate, they just recommended not prosecuting. In Comey’s deposition he said she committed several felonies during Gowdy’s questions then went on to say during Chaffetz time that if it was anyone else they would spend years in prison. And finally told Walburg that he recommended not prosecuting because (paraphrased) “she’s too stupid to be a parking attendent let alone POTUS” because she was not sophisticated enough to understand how email and classified documents work. Also he didn’t want to commit suicide by stabbing himself fifty times in the back. Then wikileaks shown she lied and committed perjury before congress. I would call Pay to Play through very large donations and huge speaking fees just before the state dept. gave special access or brokered massive deals to foreign governments highly corrupt. If it could be proven Bush did this, you’d be calling for a firing squad. Trump is like a doctor with no bedside manner. He tells you to lose 100 pounds and quit smoking. Your angry and insulted, you think of 10 reasons why he’s crazy, but in the end you realize he’s the only one telling you the truth.
” So what lies did he (Trump) state, that we’re not at 20 TRILLION in debt, that NAFTA and now TPP is not a bad joke? Maybe it’s that clinton is not above the law amd if you or I comited the same felonies we wouldn’t find are selves in prison for years. By the way illegal is not a race so how could he be a racist, what he said is stop ALL illegal entry until a better screening method can be implimented and islam is a religion and a form of government not a race, there are Latino and Asian muslims. What Trump proposed for the last 20 -30 years is stop rebuilding other countries and focus on the USA. You do know the US now has the highest corporate tax rates of all nations and with the NAFTA / TPP its beneficial to move out of the US, just ask GE headed by obamas job czar Jeff Inmelt who moved all production out of US to China, or Ford, GM, FIA moving much production to Mexico. What clinton wants to do is more of the same as Trump said, “Why didnt you fix this in the last 30 years.” If you said bush was part of the NWO, obama and clinton are more of the same. You’ve always said get rid of the career politicians why not start at the top. Quite frankly I don’t care that he’s not PC or said mean crude things about women. I’ve done some sideline work as a bartender and “girls night out” made me blush and I’ve been a mill rat all my life so don’t give me that offended BS. PS Hitler was a socialist as his party name NAZI , National Socialist Party suggests. PPS Im not Republican, I’m Libertarian. Fiscally conservative Socially don’t give a shit and Trump is all of this, while Johnson is an idiot and still trying to figure out what “pussy” is. By the way corporate welfare is the Democrats way, just who do you think wall street donates to. Then there’s quantitative easing QE1, QE2, and QE3 Totaling 2 1/2 TRILLION in free corporate welfare money.”
“Funny you mentioned Orwell, because 1984 is where rapidly headed. As progressives welcome muslims wirh open arms, are thry considering sharia law? When population % is high enough they always push for it every time it occured. While your accusing Trump of issues remember under sharia, a woman is not raped unless she has 4 male witnesses otherwise she’s a slut deserving stoning, and being gay is punishable by death. They have already tried to establish sharia in Texas and Muchigan so it is proven the so called peaceful still have their global califite agenda. As Trump and many economist have warned, the US is rapidly loosing its status as reserve currency, the IMF issued new rules last year and again this year paving the way for the Wann to replace the dollor. Oil is currently a world commodity priced in US dollors, priced in Wann expect prices to double or triple along with everything else also has Trump had predicted.” —end of comments from Jeff M.
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From Stefanie’s post from Oct 2016
Having a woman as a US president is in itself positive, as having a multiracial president has been.— But the social forces with which someone such as Trump could even be taken seriously as a potential US president in the first place won’t magically go away. —-Not everything Trump said last night was wrong. He was right about the corrupt process with which the DNC sidelined Bernie Sanders and he was right about questioning the ability of Clinton to serve the common good when she’s taking so much money from corporate interests ( as has Obama and so many other candidates and office holders ) —-But, to slightly misquote T.S. Elliot, Trump was “saying the right thing for the wrong reason.” So, he’s not to be given credit for pointing out the truth. —-Clinton is more likely to steer the US in a politically and economically progressive direction if there are grassroots movements to counter the pressure from oligarchs she’ll be under as president. —–A viable grassroots movement that counters the influence of big money requires that which doesn’t exist yet: solidarity from the relatively well-off middle and upper middle classes extended toward those who are abused or neglected in our current system, such as those on the receiving end of a racist and classist criminal justice system, and those around the world on the relieving end of US militarism. —-Absent such solidarity for a broad-based grassroots movement for progressive change, the US may pivot toward fascism. —-Trump’s incompetence makes him less dangerous. But we may not be as lucky if a more skillful demagogue emerges in the future.
Sara Mirkin “Good points. But I hope you’re not saying we should fear overt racism, sexism, and fear-mongering LESS than the possibility of a hidden agenda. Because that would be like saying we should pay more attention to what Hilary might do than what Trump has already done, which is a really dumb way to pick a president.”
I’m not saying we should fear that, or set out to fear anything for that matter. One of the reasons I’m voting for Clinton is that at least most of what she says sets a positive tone for our country, whereas Trump fear-mongers. —-As for a hidden agenda , much of what detracts from our democracy is plain to see: big corporations and the ultra rich having a disproportionate influence on our government, thru lobbying, campaign finance, and captive regulatory bodies. —Some of the consequences of that are tax breaks and tax havens for the super rich and corporations, while the federal government goes deeper into debt, and revenue-deprived cities and states cut budgets and do things such as close schools, propagandize against public education and scapegoat public educators, while finding the money to build more prisons militarize police, with black, brown, and low income communities bearing the brunt of all that. —-As for Clinton having a hidden agenda, to my knowledge most of the conspiracy speculation has a right wing orientation, whereas Clinton’s progressive critics (Berners and Greens) focus on what they see as her hawkish positions and unprogressive ties to Wall Street .—-But maybe Clinton will change her foreign policy once she’s elected and no longer has to preempt critics on the political right who’d have painted a Democratic woman candidate as soft and naive regarding national defense. As for her ties to Wall Street, time may tell how far she can go with taking on some of Sanders’ themes such as overturning Citizens United. —-Also regarding whether she has a hidden agenda, the social justice orientation of her political career indicates that her hawkish stances and ties to Wall Street might result from the difficulty of navigating a corrupt system that needs structural change, not from any sinister personal ambitions. That explanation applies to Obama too. —–No president can single-handedly fix our political system. The government needs grassroots movements to counter the influence of an oligarchy. Such movements require solidarity across race, class , religion. ..etc. The solution is neither socioeconomic jealousy from below nor guilt from above. It’s solidarity. Thanks for helping me to think about this. Sara.
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From Chris A’s post in Oct 2016
One way of thinking of Hillary Clinton’s likely presidency is that it may buy a little time, with which to build grassroots movements for progressive changes to our economic and political systems. —-Without a robust progressive social movement that counters the influence of big money, Clinton, like Obama, probably will be limited in what she can do, whether it’s reinstating Glass-Steagall, overturning Citizens United, enacting campaign finance reform, increasing taxes for big corporations, investing in quality public education, or getting serious about alternatives to fossil fuels. —-The social climate in which Trump’s demagoguery got him so close to being president won’t magically go away after election day. —-If there’s not a social movement to address the concentration of economic and political power and to address ecological crises, demagoguery that plays on people’s fear and ignorance is likely to fill the void.—– One of the things such a social movement will require is the ever increasing number of middle and upper middle class people who will use their relatively privileged social connections and organizational skills to work in solidarity with working class and poor folk here in the US and around the world. —-Looking down our noses at Trump supporters and thinking Clinton will make everything OK is irresponsible.—–Trump’s thumb-less grasp of the issues and his crudeness (not, by the way, his racism and authoritarianism ) is what probably will cost him the presidency. Someone more skillfully authoritarian than Trump would be more dangerous. —- Right wing populism likely will be a force to contend with into the future here in the US as it is in parts of Europe. —-In the US and Europe, new forms of fascism may appeal to those who are anxious about losing both their economic status and their status that has been based in White Christian majority privilege. —–That’s why a mentality of global solidarity is important for changing our economic and political systems, in ways that don’t enable demagogues to exploit our fears and our ignorance.
….global solidarity involves thinking of oneself more as a being on this fragile, sacred planet and less as someone who identifies with labels such as ‘white ‘ or ‘American’ or ‘Christian.’ It’s likely a post-theological ethic based in our indisputable reliance on Earth. In that sense it’s more universal and not limited to any religion or not even relying on any religion. —- (R)evolution is not just political. It’s spiritual too.
….by embracing eco-centric values, a person may experience changes to economic status and let go of racial and other unjust privilege thru global solidarity, and find joy and purpose, instead of clinging to those injust privileges with anger, fear, and hatred
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Trump and his Central Park Five Defiance
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A friend and i didn’t exoect Trump to win the Republic nomination. She predicted that former Trump supporters would see Sanders as the next-best thing
That sounded far-fetched. Trump supporters probably see Sanders as a socialist, and as a promoter of ‘big government.’
That aside, this calls to mind how populism can pivot, either toward democratizing directions or toward something ugly—oops, almost said the F word, and it isn’t ‘fuck.’
Where’s Sanders getting his campaign money ? Talk among disappointed supporters of Obama had it that the “powers that be” (the military-industrial-complex, and so on) threatened him and his family, disabusing him of his pre-election notions of presiding over a democracy.
That’s a bit of a conspiracy theory, but I don’t understand how Sanders can effectuate positive change, given the hold that campaign financing and lobbying have over public policy, and the power the ‘military-industrial complex has over policymakimng.
All due respect, but how can Sanders possibly put into action his talk about political revolution and challenging oligarchy?
Grassroots movements can counter that influence. We got strength in numbers, that is, if we organize. But so far, the requisite degree of grassroots organization is barely a rumor. Sorry if I’m coming across as pessimistic.
In the absence of a national manifestation of the Global Justice Movement, I don’t see positive populism in the US as being a sure thing. I’m not trying to be pessimistic, but given who buys public policy thru campaign finance and lobbying, entrenched regulatory conflicts-of-interest, and the misinformation in the mainstream media, it’s unfortunately not far-fetched that demagoguery could take hold.
As a result of fear-mongering and intolerant rhetoric ( for example, toward Muslims and undocumented immigrants, ) the critical mass of populism in this country may be channeled not into social justice and ecological responsibility, but instead into scapegoating and increased militarism and nationalism.
I spoke with a couple dozen Trump supporters a few weeks ago at a rally. I was puzzled by how person after person told me that Obama is letting the world walk all over us, and that we need to strengthen our military and get serious about addressing terrorism and illegal immigration. Where do these folk get such ideas?
More recently, this week Republican candidates, not just Trump, engaged in mendacious fear-mongering, with one of them saying that Obama has deliberately undermined our national security, and another saying, ridiculously, that many Americans “don’t recognize their own country anymore.”
They’re promoting xenophobia and other fears (as it pertains to Muslims and immigrants), and it’s a nod to that segment of our society that thinks Obama is a radical socialist Muslim who is secretly collaborating with terrorists.
In the middle of coordinating visits with a former drinking buddy of my friend who was hospitalized, she told about Obama’s evil-doings. When I pressed her for details, she said, “Newt Gingrich wrote a good article about it.”
This is anecdotal, but her views were similar to those of people at the Trump rally I was at. Hopefully that segment of society is a small, unorganized, unmotivated minority.
But what if they are not a small minority? The political involvement (voting) of scared, frustrated, and misinformed people who number in the millions and who are enchanted by a charismatic person who makes recklessly overgeneralized statements does not help to push things in the direction of a democratizing grassroots movement with a positive vision for the future.
Correct me on this maybe, but if it’s the case that moderate Republicans and moderate conservatives are continuing to lose credibility among Republican voters, and a radical candidate appeals to their frustration, what does that spell, if, at the same time, centrist Democratic candidates such as Hillary don’t have enough support to get elected ?
I am going to quit this for now. I’ll keep an open mind. But, what I’m more certain of is that I’m leaning toward Sanders. Even if we doesn’t win, helping with his campaign could form working ties useful for grass roots movement building.
That’s work I plan to do regardless of the general election outcome. As before, my challenge is connecting my livelihood with helping to build grassroots movements. I plan to start by standing on street corners with signs “Organize kindness, random acts aren’t enough.” and “Maximize kindness on Earth.”
An idea related to the election is that I want to be optimistic about the movement building opportunity a Trump presidency may inadvertantly catalyze, but I want to do so while having solidarity with people in immigrant, Muslim, and other communities that may be afraid now that Trump is the president-elect. I’m less likely to be effective with such solidarity if I’m depressed and afraid. But I don’t want to be insensitively chipper regarding the anxieties of people who are less privileged than me.
Trump ran a devisive campaign and gave a nod to ethnic and religious intolerance, but let’s think about this for a moment. The aim here is not to make light of the dangers of such divisiveness, but rather to consider whether there is room for growth in terms of being consistent, as we compare Trump and Hillary Clinton.
Her rhetoric was more positive, but let’s consider the harm of her entanglement with Wall Street and her militarism, such as it pertains to the killing of Khaddafi and the destablization of Libya. Weigh that harm with the harm that Trump has caused with his rhetoric and the damage he may cause to civil rights, the economy, domestic tranquility and international relations.
There is a habit among the so-called common people to identify with people who are politically, economically, or culturally prominent. In the case of a politician such as Trump or Clinton, many people
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